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Welcome to let's Talk About it, the podcast where we shine a light on the change agents and everyday heroes who shape our communities.
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Here we dive deep into the lived experiences of our guests, exploring the milestone moments that have either propelled them forward or changed their paths.
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On moments that have either propelled them forward or changed their paths, we anchor every conversation in two foundational pillars of the Black community books and music.
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Through this unique lens, we capture, entertain and inform, weaving a rich tapestry of stories and insights that resonate, inspire and spark meaningful dialogue.
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Join our host, tj Lowry and Shatima Grisham, as they engage with thought leaders and community change agents to uncover the rich tapestry of experiences that shape our lives.
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Get ready for insightful discussions, unfiltered perspectives and the celebration of Black excellence.
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Let's talk about it, of Black Excellence.
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Let's talk about it.
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Hey everyone, and welcome to let's Talk About it, the podcast.
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I'm your girl, tj, and I'm so excited to welcome you back.
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Get in here, get in here, get in here.
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So we're in a new studio home.
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You see it, it look good, right?
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We also are excited for the new year and have changed the format a little bit.
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We think you'll be excited about what we're bringing.
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We're going to talk about what's happening out in the culture and the intersection of HR.
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What will we have done where they have gone wrong and just really give our input.
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But before we get into today's show, I must introduce my co-host.
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Y'all know my girl, shatima.
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How you doing, shatima, hey, I'm good.
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How are you?
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I'm hanging in there.
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Good, good.
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Well, I'm excited.
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New year, new format.
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We have our guest here, so we're excited about getting going.
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The universe has given us a lot of things to talk about as far as hot topics, what did you?
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Think about our new house.
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I love our new house.
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I love our new producer our new house.
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Definitely looks good.
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Yeah, he's swagged out right.
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So who are you introducing us to today?
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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I'm excited about introducing our new guest, Ayanna Baker.
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She is the People's Support Manager for SWCA.
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She also owns her own business, New Age Vision, which specializes in skin care and waist beads.
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She is also the VP of Branding and Marketing with BHRS, which is close and dear to our heart.
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So we're excited about her coming in and being our first guest in our new format today.
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Welcome Ayana.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to be the first guest too.
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That's an honor, so thank you?
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Yes, it is, you're honorary worthy.
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You know you are and it really is.
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It gives us a chance to talk about BHRS a little bit too, so we're excited to have you.
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What motivated you to join the Black HR Society?
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Tell us a little bit about your role and what the people can expect this year from you and your team.
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Awesome, Good question.
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The motivation was first off.
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I didn't even know there was an organization that was specialized in supporting black HR professionals, so that was like threw me over the moon.
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And then the mission of giving back to the community through our expertise, making sure that we leave HR a better place than we found it, especially for people of color.
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So that is my why and I want to be a part of that.
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So I'm excited being a part of branding and communication.
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2025 is going to be a dynamic year.
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We're going to have a lot more content, a lot more engagement.
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We want to definitely make sure we get our faces in front of our members.
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We want to shout out our members.
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We have some incredible members with a lot of talent, a lot of expertise, and we really want to make sure that we are standing out and showcasing our differentiators by, you know, really showing that we are the HR expertise to go to.
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Yeah, and along with the theme of, you know, being a new year, we have a new website, so we're excited about our new website.
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We also have new branding materials, so we're moving on up.
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Yeah, you even have a little tablecloth branded Ayanna, got the board member of the year last year, year before 23, and still just killed it in 24.
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And so you've always been a pleasure to have on the team.
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And so beautiful in spirit and outside.
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She was my lock crush too.
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We laugh about that.
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As I went into that journey I had to say tell me, ayana, because her locks are gorgeous.
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Oh, thank you.
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Thank you.
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It really is an honor to be a part of the Black HR Society and to partner with Shatima and UTJ, so I'm grateful.
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I'm really getting more out of it than probably you guys are.
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I'm the newest member of this group to that team, so I definitely felt the same way.
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I was looking to join a board and I wanted to give my like, gifts and talents back to our community.
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First, I feel like we represent a very high population in HR, especially black women, and so I wanted to kind of start there.
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So when I saw the marketing and the branding on LinkedIn and reached out, that was the reason why I joined as well, just to give back and give some of this knowledge, because there are disparages, you know, in the workplace.
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It's a different experience sometimes for us, and so being able to tell people who look like me, like this is what really happens in HR and this is what this means.
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You know you're being worked out or, you know, not hired or whatever the case may be, was definitely a driver for joining the team.
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So I am excited that you put this together, tj, and we've met so many great people and we have great members as well.
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Yeah, the goal is to support.
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You know, being in HR is tough in general, but when you are black and corporate, we know that is a completely different experience that people cannot relate to, and, being in HR, we have so many things that we're privy to and we can't really share, and it's really good to have a safe space to use and tap into resources.
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You know I'm dealing with some stuff, and so that's what the goal and the mission is, and also to create this vortex where now we're helping the community get equitable employment.
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Y'all resume reviews, we've got some coaching sessions coming up this year, so I'm really excited about the impact that we can and will make in the community this year, and so this team is doing that along with the rest of the board.
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So, yeah, so can you share a bit about your journey from HR compliance to diversity, equity and inclusion?
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We know that's a to get burned out and then the industry that I was in.
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We were always understaffed in HR, so that just made it even harder to really enjoy the profession.
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So I wanted to get into something that I wasn't very strong in.
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I wanted to broaden my resume and so compliance.
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And when I came over to SWCA, the director at the time was like I got you, I'm going to train you up to be a compliance specialist, and so I was super excited about that.
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It was also a plus, because right compliance is behind the scenes.
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You don't get a lot of employee relations stuff.
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So I was, yeah, no babysitting and really compliance, I think, for me, is where my heart is, because you really are shaping the culture through policy, through making sure that you are compliant with legal expectations.
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So I really enjoy that part and that's a way for HR for us to give back.
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A lot of times what we do, they say we're not billable or we're not revenue generating.
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So, being in compliance, knowing that you had the law and in the culture drive, did you find that you were able to be more influential in the organizations?
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Oh, absolutely, because a lot of times, through compliance, you find those gaps, and those gaps are where we're at risk as a company.
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So being able to present those gaps, especially during strategy meetings or any opportunities to help reduce, is a cost saving.
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So, especially when you are as a HR professional, when you are talking to senior leadership, you always want to make sure you incorporate how it affects the business Right.
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So I'm always looking for those, those things.
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And I feel like the hiring managers or the executives tend to respect the recommendations of the compliance manager more so than the business partner, the employee relations, because you're dealing more with people on that side and the compliance.
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I was like no, no, no, this was the law.
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It was passed.
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You cannot do that.
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It's like black and white versus the employee relation You're like you know.
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I recommend some coaching.
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You should probably terminate them and they don't take those recommendations so true.
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But I found the compliance manager carries a little bit of weight when they step into the room and says hey, did you know an audit was supposed to happen?
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Yeah, and you're supposed to do A, B and C.
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Absolutely, we love our compliance managers.
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See, I think it's a unique role Like not many companies have it.
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Ayanna is my compliance officer.
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We don't have one and she know I brought her in to meet my team right we talk to my HR coordinators because it's not something most companies have.
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And I ask the question because I feel like it's difficult, if it's the right thing to do, to do it right, unless I can say, well, legally we have to, or you know, and I mentioned we have to then clean it up well, maybe that's the personal service announcement.
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Get you a compliance manager, so I want to dive into some hot topics and talk about what's happening.
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Shatim, out here Now, you know I don't watch the news right.
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My news is social, which is horrible because it's my algorithm telling me what's happening outside, and so I need you to help me understand what is happening outside.
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Yeah, so I do watch the news.
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I try not to, but it's hard because then I'm a person who wants to be in the know.
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So it starts on Instagram and then I'm in Google, CNN, MSN.
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But there is definitely a lot cooking these days, specifically the California fires.
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You know, we know and I know.
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I'm a native of Arizona and I always say my native friends and families.
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we have California cousins and family members specifically in LA, since it's only six hours away and the Bay Area is 12.
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So you know watching it on the news.
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They have wildfires every year, all the time, and they're always very you know just devastating.
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But this one seems to be a mess, like BIT has just came through and took out, like the whole community, the whole city.
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Has anybody had anybody affected by the fire?
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Not personally.
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A lot of our co-workers, though, have had family.
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We actually have a co-worker who is going down to Los Angeles to help with the recovery, and so a lot of us have come together to provide support, but luckily, my family is San Diego, so we weren't really impacted.
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I was curious because I know you have California roots, but same for us.
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We have a team member who decided to take donations and, you know, even provided a list of things that would be valuable and drove them to Cali, and so I thought that was admirable.
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I also find it interesting that the county or the community that was burned down, altadena- was a primarily black community.
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Why wasn't that like mainstream news?
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Because it is honestly, honestly giving me Tulsa right.
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It's giving me when those communities are too rich yes.
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Then we are going to burn them down.
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And so those people are struggling because those homes were paid off.
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Generational homes.
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Thank you, Generational homes and now are going to be displaced and so that that bothers me.
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I'm very concerned about that aspect too, because are these people now going to come to arizona?
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and what am I going?
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to do for realty right, yes, they're coming, that's probably for sure.
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We, um, I have a lot of family members in la and and thankfully for the most part they're all well.
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I had a cousin whose school her kid's grade school was burnt, and then I did have an older cousin in Altadena, so I don't know him personally a little, you know, closer to my parents age, but they did lose their home down there that they had been in for 60 years.
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So so it's completely, you know, just devastating to watch and it's still burning and not contained.
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You know, from an HR perspective, you know, what resources can you know, do these, you know families have that may have been displaced, like what do you do if this was one of your employees who is, you know, now displaced, had a house that morning and now it's completely gone?
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You know, for your own experiences or in your individual companies, what resources you know should we?
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look for?
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Yeah, because they don't have the money for Airbnbs or you know, not in California FEMA's already declining claims.
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And even if they got it, where are they sending those?
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You know, it's just really a struggle and I feel bad for those people.
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I want you all to come to Arizona.
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Come on over you know, but it definitely impacts the entire surface around California, and that includes us.
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I know you know a lot of people.
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I have to remind them.
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You know there's EAP Employee.
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Assistant.
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Programs that a lot of companies have.
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California's the hub to a lot of those companies, even tapping into their FMLA's and those extended leaves and calling their different, you know, medical insurance companies.
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There's got to be some trauma that is coming from you know, is impacted by that or displaced to reach out to their HR teams at their companies and ask for those resources that are not always, like you know, publicized.
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We always sell medical, dental and vision, but there's that EAP program, financial assistance and things like that that may be available, that they may or may not you know, know about, yeah, and I think the impact of those individuals we we know is bad, right, and we're like oh, but think about, you know, you have two dogs, your home is, you know.
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Now you got to go to an Airbnb that doesn't take dogs right and in order to get them fostered, they're like where's their records, where's their food, you know, and you don't have anything.
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And so I think there is a very difficult experience that those people individually are going through that you know.
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I want people to recognize and be empathetic to those experiences, so hopefully we'll see some good news come out of this.
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I mean it's just as horrible for us right now.
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I think we do.
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You know really well as Americans, when there are these travesties, that's when you see like the best of us.
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You know you always see all the negative things that happen.
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But I feel like when these, especially these natural disasters although this doesn't sound too natural, but that may be my own- conspiracy theory.
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I heard that too.
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We do really well in that space of helping and being charitable and obviously a lot of celebrities are reaching out and a lot of celebrities lost their homes as well.
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So definitely prayers up for those individuals that are displaced from there.
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Yeah, I think that's the good I'm looking for.
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The people coming together, so the good in us to support those people going through.
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So thank you, shatima.
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Going on to the next topic, girl well, dei, it never fails us.
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It seems to be a hot topic um what is dei for the?
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People that don't know diversity, equity and inclusion.
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Some would say d-e-i-a.
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Accessibility, right, right, compliance.
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Rightness compliance over there.
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Let's lean into it.
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Let's do it.
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Well, where do we start?
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Let's start with Amazon.
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Have you heard the newest thing with Amazon as far as their DEIs?
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They're slowly kind of removing any protective languages or protective programs that they have in place for, you know, blacks or LGBTIA.
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So, like resource groups, employee resource groups, they're getting rid of those.
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Resource groups, any of their programs, and it's just the newest trend right.
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A lot of companies are kind of leaning into that.
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Have you heard of any of that at Amazon?
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Caught up on that.
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Not Amazon in particular, but I have heard of McDonald's and other industries that are pulling away from it, and I think it's just the fear of the unknown from the new administration.
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Don't tiptoe, girl.
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We know where you want to go.
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Tell us more.
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Threatening their funding is enough to make anyone, right from a business perspective, start to re-look at some of their programs.
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And, like I said, that unknown factor well, I shouldn't say unknown it's been very loudly spoken that they will be pulling funding and possibly dismantling organizations because of DE&I.
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It makes sense that companies have that fear.
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It's unfortunate, but I get it.
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I get it.
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Some companies, though I really respect that they are doubling down Costco.
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I love Costco.
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Costco's doubling down.
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Okay, I can keep my membership.
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There you go.
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And a lot of companies are rebranding right.
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They're going to play that game of we're not going to call it DE&I, we'll call it inclusive team or something else, and I appreciate that too.
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I think the problem that we will see, though, is we have millennials and Gen Z, who are all about inclusion, and we are going to see a change in employment when you start pulling back these things that they fought so hard to have in place, like employee resource groups.
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10 years ago, you didn't know what that was.
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Gen Z and millennials were like we need these.
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So Gen Z and millennials were like we need these.
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So taking those things that are so important to the workplace is really really going to have an impact on your overall morale and engagement from your employees.
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So we'll see.
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And then we work so hard right to have pay transparency, and so many states are rolling out pay transparency that is threatening to be taken away too.
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You're threatening to throw that away too, yeah.
00:19:36.481 --> 00:19:43.178
It's all part of it wow, yeah so one of the things I was curious about as you were talking about this, you know one.
00:19:43.178 --> 00:19:45.564
You shifted into dei.
00:19:45.564 --> 00:19:48.190
Now how is that going to impact you?
00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:56.066
But is there a feel that the people that are shifting out of it was doing it for the checkbox right?
00:19:56.066 --> 00:20:17.672
I feel like the cost goals are doubling down because we believe in this, and so it concerns me that so many people are so quick to be like, okay, we don't got to do it, okay, and so it was more about the compliancy and also doing what's happening, and so I have concerns about that and how it impacts your new role.
00:20:18.881 --> 00:20:20.186
First of all, I totally agree with you.
00:20:20.186 --> 00:20:29.325
There are some companies that really were not sincere in their approach towards DE&I and we can see that because they're so easily willing to pull back from that.
00:20:29.325 --> 00:20:31.288
So I totally agree with you on that.
00:20:31.288 --> 00:20:38.269
It makes me a little concerned because I'm invested emotionally into the DE&I.
00:20:38.269 --> 00:20:51.430
I don't want to say movement, but I think that is the direction that we should be going to as employers or as a global community.
00:20:51.430 --> 00:20:57.646
Making sure that the workplace represents the community is key.
00:20:57.646 --> 00:21:16.837
Right when I come to work, I want to feel like I bring my whole self, that I'm respected, whether I have a disability, whether I'm a woman, whether I'm a veteran, and having that being told by my employer that that's no longer important, or who I am is no longer important, is really distracting and disheartening.
00:21:16.837 --> 00:21:19.582
Or who I am is no longer important it's really distracting and disheartening.
00:21:19.602 --> 00:21:24.289
I also think that a lot of people are just misinformed Absolutely.
00:21:24.289 --> 00:21:32.615
I think when they think of DEI, they think of affirmative action, hires, and you're in that role because you're a woman because you're black, because you're over 40.
00:21:32.615 --> 00:21:35.671
And those programs are bigger than that.
00:21:35.832 --> 00:21:36.255
Absolutely.
00:21:38.461 --> 00:21:52.926
And they miss the inclusiveness of it, they miss the mental health of being able to show up as your whole self, and so whenever I have these conversations with people, I'm like that's not true.
00:21:53.147 --> 00:22:05.980
Like you're misinformed, like that's not what that is for, that's not why that was put in place, and I feel like you know you saw an increase in these programs and these roles around that, george Floyd, all these you know social media posts.
00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:12.646
We support the hiring and the equity of this and we are going to do this and they built these roles and now you know what?
00:22:12.646 --> 00:22:18.736
Three, four, five years later, they're removing those programs because they just didn't know what you know to do with them.
